southerndownhill.com - Forum

Evening all, Due to the dribble being spouted in another thread I thought I'd put some things straight on this.

So you are wanting to bulk up some muscle....read and learn.

Firstly don't go into training blind...understand what you are doing in the gym.

There are three aspects to bulking your muscles up, (well four actually but I'm not gonna write advice on steroids and what to use and what not to).

These are

Training
Diet
Rest/Sleep
go on then...Testosterone optimisation (however I'm only going to talk about how to naturally increase your anabolic hormones).

Lets start with how they tie in together and why you need all three perfected to get the most out of your training.

Firstly your muscles don't grow in the gym, you can not build muscle whilst eating little amounts of food and you won't grow well if you aren't sleeping properly.

Reason being

Your muscles do not I repeat your muscles DO NOT grow whilst you are in the gym.

Every time you train you cause small tears in your muscles, these are called micro traumas (sp)

You walk out the gym after a hard session with your body in a state of decay, your muscles have tiny tiny traumas that need repairing.

You need correct sleep and nutrition for your body to repair these effectively. When it recovers (if allowed to properly) your body will repair these traumas and over compensate and over repair them (bingo muscle growth).

...living in the gym 24/7 won't make you grow...you need to allow your body to rest and recover properly and you also need to feed it right to help it do so.


Think of it like some cavemen building a bridge over a little river.

They have a little bridge to start with,..... then an earthquake comes along and shakes it about and makes some holes in the bridge.

The cave men can then repair these holes (after the earthquake) and this time they will be clever and make the bits with holes in a bit bigger and stronger in case there is another earthquake.....

Then another earthquake comes along and the process repeats.

Soon the bridge is much bigger as all of it has been replaced with bigger stronger bits.

Now a slightly bigger earthquake comes along and puts holes in some of these new stronger bits of bridge....the cave men have to then decide to make it even bigger to compensate for these new even bigger earthquakes.

....the process repeats and so long as the earthquakes get bigger then the bridge keeps on growing.

So in that analogy...

The Bridge is your muscles

The Earthquakes are the workouts.

The time between earthquakes is your rest and sleep.

The wood to make the bridge and the food to feed the cavemen is your nutrition intake.

The Number of cavemen and how fast they can work are your anabolic hormones (testosterone + HGH).

So as you can see all the above are important factors. If the cavemen don't have enough time to repair the bridge then it will never get bigger and if they don't have enough wood then they can't repair the bridge and if the bridge doesn't get knocked down then they never have a reason to make it bigger and stronger.

So now you know what you are doing in the gym lets have a look at some of the aspects.

Training....

There really is far too much to write on this subject in this thread but to get you started...

Firstly you need to be lifting smart. Use big compound movements like ..

Squats
Chins
Deadlifts
Bench presses
Military presses
Sit ups (full range)

These will cause the most amount of muscle growth.

You can refine your shape etc with smaller exercise to complement the above such as bicep curls tricep french presses and calf raises etc

But.....for main mass building then the big compound movements are a must when trying to build up.

As for rep ranges stick under 12 reps ideally.

Different people respond differently to different training etc but between 8 and 12 reps for each set is a starting point.

Lift smart...don't cheat as you can get injured very easily, especially with exercises like squats and deadlifts.

LIFT HEAVY THOUGH....if you can do the tenth rep very easily then up the weight...each work out aim to progress and keep improving/lifting heavier

(it's a bigger earthquake that way).

Diet/Nutrition

To grow you need to eat more calories than you burn....scientific fact, it is physically impossible to gain weight if you are burning what you put in.

You are best to commit to a bulking cycle and accept that you may get a little fatter whilst you are training to grow your muscles as you need to EAT!!!

Make sure the food you eat is clean though. (cut the crap out of your diet it's only going to clog up your arteries and aid you in getting fat) whilst you are making sure you are in a

.......CALORIFIC SURPLUS

Get plenty of protein (this is the building block of muscles) I'm talking Fish, Egg whites, chicken breasts, lean red meat, cottage cheese, whey protein etc etc.

2.2g of protein per KG of your body weight per day is a good rule of thumb

So an 80kg bloke that wants to bulk up needs 80 x 2.2 approx 176 grams of protein every day really for bulking.

That's a fair bit, think 2 tins of tuna a chicken breast 2 protein shakes and a tub of cottage cheese.

Sounds a lot....it is but hey it will help no end.

Get plenty of carbs but try and keep them brown.

So you are eating plenty of clean foods and getting lots of protein......now we'll talk nutritional timing.

Your body has essentially two states, Anabolic and Catabolic.

Anabolic means growing, Catabolic means shrinking (eating itself).

You want to avoid being catabolic at all costs when bulking, this means not going for over 3 hours without food.

Splitting your food intake over 6 meals per day is recommended and keep protein in each meal.

Get some slow release protein before bed to aid in preventing/minimising catabolic effects whilst you sleep. (tub of low fat cottage cheese is ideal).

Some body builders get up in the night to have protein to stop them ever going catabolic.....bit OTT in my opinion but if you wanna be the best of the best of the best...

Also pre and post workout meals are important....simple carbs before training help fuel a decent work out. (I know I said cut out simple carbs but pre workout it's not a sin)

Quick absorbed Protein and some carbs immediately after you train is one of the best things you can do as you have a window of opportunity straight after you have finished your workout ...... for about an hour your body can utilise nutrients and get the repair process going quicker if you give it the post workout nutrition it needs.

A whey protein shake miked with Orange juice and a banana is ideal post workout.


Rest periods-

Rest ideally 48 hours between workouts, or if you are splitting your muscle groups up then give the groups you have trained 48 hours before you work them again.

Beware though some exercises over lap groups such as chest and shoulders or back and biceps so remember this when picking how to split you workouts and working out your rest periods.

This way they will get adequate rest in order to repair, You do most of your muscle growing/repairing in your sleep so get a good nights kip each and every night 8 hours if you can.

Testosterone optimisation-

Steroids are bad for you end of....I won't offer advice on them and all I will say is steer clear, it's a slippery slope that I have seen many a fellow meat head follow and are damaging their bodies and endangering their health and life expectancy massively.

You can however help keep your natural levels of testosterone as high as you possibly can by making sure you get adequate good fats in your diet (think olive oil, flora etc etc) and by making sure you get plenty of vitamins and minerals in your diet...take a vitamin supplement if you need to.

And before bed get some Zinc....I kid you not, if you can afford it then take a ZMA supplement but if not just Zinc will do the job....it really does boost your manliness  ;)



PPPffffff....that seems a bit long winded but really it is very very brief. I would be here for hours if I could get everything down on paper that I want to.

When I can be arsed I'll write a basic beginners bulking up workout and tag it on the end.

Paul

Crikey paul, yet more stupidly detailed advice! Cheers!  :)

Thats the annoying thing, it's too long winded a subject to give you detailed advice.

Wish I had time to write something detailed on the subject.

Cheers though.

Paul

Cavemen did the wheel then this! hardcore! :P

Can you give us some more info on why Zinc is particularly good.

You said under 12 reps is key... so is this 12 reps in total on that machine or before I rest 30seconds then do more (im guessing the first one)

Thanks Paul

Zinc optimises testosterone production (your natural steroids)....more of the little cavemen  ;)

Under 12 reps per set.

I normally do 4 sets per exercise so for instance for Bench press I would do 12,10,8,8

Paul

12 10 8 8 reps on the same weight?

What do you think to the advice I was given (my mate got it off his best mate who is Junior Body Building Champ)

He said to do 12reps at a hardish weight then go down to 10 on a harder weight then 8 on harder until 6.

how does that sound?

Sounds spot on mate....many ways of training, that is typical pyramid training...will work just fine and dandy.

Paul

What about stretching before/after exercise? My old trainer said it was really important.

PM'd you Paul.

:( Damn it, I find it really hard to do this well its an utter struggle to get them all (hence effective probobly)
I usually cop out and do 3 sets of 12 reps and only find the last 3reps of all the sets hard.

probobly pussying out!

- as for stretching, just do cross trainers and stuff to warm up

Also I dont want to speak for Paul but don't everyone go and PM him I've bombarded him enough in the past... just post up here and get more heads to reply to you.

either that or offer him a few quid to write you something out ;)

As I said...I can't get everything down.

Don't stretch before exercise, muscles liked to be stretched when warm...after your session s will help prevent you becoming muscle bound and some research shows it aids recovery and stops you being so sore.

Paul

al...you sound like you might find yourself beter with reverse pyramid training.

Try warming your muscles in then doing it backwards

Example Bench press

30 reps...just bar (to get the muscle warm)

8 reps as heavy as you can manage
10 reps with a bit less weight than for 8
12 reps with a bit less weight than for 10

Then try and always improve each session so the weight for 8 goes up and the weight fot 10 is what you used for 8 in the last session and the weight for 12 is what you used for 10 in the last session.

Etc etc...you get the idea.

Sounds mint Paul - im on it!

there are a few things I could add, but I'll just say this - "alchohol lowers testosterone levels". Sorry folks, it's true.

Too right  ;)

so all the manly men puttin' them away at the boozer are in fact making themselves less manly by drinking more?

Ever noticed that the guy in the corner of the pub who can drink 20 pints... has got tits?  ;)

Yep, your estrogen levels get raised. Woman parts & reduced muscle mass are just some of the benefits of excessive alcohol. So next time a mate calls you a "woman" for not getting into town for a belly full, explain to him just how wrong he is!

Quite a good book to read as a guide to what you're doing to yourself with specific exercises is Maran Illustrated's 'Weight Training' which I picked up from WHSmiths for about 15 quid. It covers all the dos and don'ts as far as exercising goes, and has diagrams highlighting muscles used. It also covers nutrition and other factors involved in training, and I would recommed it from what I've learned through reading it.

NB- I'm not taking anything away from Paul's training tips, as he certainly knows what he's talking about, but found this a pretty good read to compliment my Dad's training advice, (still benching 140KG at 58!)

I see this has been stickied....cheers whoever did that.

Paul

sound advice chilled, i followed this kinda routine when i was younger, it worked to a certain extent, but i didnt put on much mass, no matter what i did. must just be one of those people.

but, how could i go around fitting everything like this around work and a family? any routines you can do at home without the use of a gym.

i think we need a test subject to post pics periodlically so we can see how its going :)

its all about genetics too, some people are born with the ability to gain muscle and some cant do it no matter how hard they train.

ive been a gym user for 4-5 years for rugby at a highish level, and ive been lifting more than the meatheads even though they appear to be so massive to the eye, but they are muscley with fat too. i have no fat cos of a high metabolism but have the muscles there even though they appear smaller (that sounds big headed! sorry!  :-[ ). im 6ft tall and approx 12 and half stone with a BMI of 22, and im happy as larry with that. im benching 30kg dumbells each, 100kg olympic bar press, bicep curling 22.5kg each and triceps are the strongest of the lot! (that sounds even more big headed!! Sorry!!!   :-[ :-[ ).

ive also tried every protein supplement in the book, as well as creatine, zinc, healthy diets, 240g+ protein a day, but no matter what i did i couldnt gain muscle mass, i just got stronger, so at the end of the day i just said to myself, "im stronger than the meatheads so will be stronger in rugby, so its best to eat 5 a-day and keep fit and fast, cos those meatheads probably cant run very fast!" and i was happy with that.

i got really pi**ed off with the fact i couldnt gain muscle but at the end of the day as long as you are happy with who you are then it doesnt matter, you are born with certain genetics, metabolism and frame structure and there is no changing that, so the sooner you accept your body the sooner you'll be happy with the results from the gym (most women dont like meatheads anyway! how many girls do you know prefer Arnie to brad pitt in snatch??!)

my routine is the same as Paul's pretty much, i seperate my days into muscle groups, e.g. monday - bicep, tuesday - tricep, wednesday - shoulders, thursday - back, friday - chest, weekend - rest and a ride. i also do a half hour hill climb cardio ride in the gym on every other day. rest and diet is the key, and being a uni student i cant afford to eat amazingly but i have multivits and eat alot of meat, fibre, fruit and veg, and i find this helps way more than protein shakes for a person with my genetics.

i hope this helps those people who struggle with weight gain, as i know for some its not as easy for others.

cheers, John

Genetics hinders you in bulking sometimes....you just have to eat more and be stricter with not missing food if you are a hard gainer.

It's not all about protein it's about overall calorific intake. There comes a point when your body simply can't burn it all of no matter how high your metabolic rate...then you will start gaining weight.

I was 9 stone at 5ft10 and looked gaunt when I started lifting at 17, I just couldn't bulk up.... until I started eating 8 times a day and 4000 calories +. then it pilled on very quickly.

Paul

did you gain the right kind of weight though when eating 4000+ calories a day?

how much do you weigh now? and how old are you?

I reched 14.5 stone with slightly viasble abs (so not super lean). The key is finding the amount of calories you need to stop your metabolism from preventing you fom gaining weight but not overdoing it so that you gain a too much excess fat.

I've been out the gym for ages now due to injurys to my shoulders soft tissue caused by going over my bars....I have recently got back in though and will be posting a 10 week transformation series of pictures.

Mark and al off of here saw me in France last year about a year after I had stopped training and....well I'll let them tell you what sort of size I was even after a year out of the gym.

I'm 25 now.

One thing....it doesn't happen over night.

Paul

Yes, the hard-gainer thing is no excuse. Sure, some people find it harder to gain weight due to metabolic factors, but anyone can gain weight. The rule is - if you're hungry, eat - if you're not hungry - eat. The funny thing is, if you actually become really commited to gaining muscle, you realize that training is the easy part - eating all the time is what will completely demoralise you and make you want to quit.

like paul says, it's not all about protein - you need it to grow muscle, but fats and carbs are just as important to the process. The cleaner the better. And you will need plenty of fibre if you're eating like a horse - better to get most of that from fruit and veg (of course they have their own benifits too). But if you're going on a big bulk, you will gain some excess fat - even if you get your calorie intake bang-on. But if you had trouble adding weight in the first place, losing a bit of fat will be easy when you're ready to stop bulking. Here's a good weight gainer bar recipe:

about 1 jar of (maybe a bit less, experiment) of honey.
2 jars of peanut butter (about 340gm ones).
1 tall glass of rolled oats (bit less than a pint).
1 tall glass of whey protein (Same again, about 6 scoops).

Take a big pan, throw in the honey and peanut butter, heat gently and stir until it all mixes together, gradually add the whey and oats and keep mixing. Once it's all mixed, give it a min or 2 to heat some more (constantly moving it to stop it burning) and then place in a big tray and flatten down, cut into sections and let dry. Takes about 10 mins to make.

If you're trying to bulk up muscle, these bars are basically a meal you can store and eat in 5 mins. (For me it's my between breakfast and lunch meal with a cup of tea at work). They're very convinent. Natural peanut butter has better fats and less additives, well sourced honey has less contaniments, but these bars are still relatively healthy if you do it with cheap stuff (compared to a mars bar and a bag of crisps that is).

They're much nicer and cheaper than bought ones. You can get 8 fair sized bars from the above ingredients. each with about 40gms of protein (add more whey to adjust, but you may need to add olive oil to stop them being too dry) - plenty of good mono-unsaturated fats, some fibre and carbs. Plus P.butter is full of magnesium which helps your bones absorb calcium thereby making them stronger. A good mineral to have in your body. Strong bones are always good in our sport.

Sound advice from Strafer there.....better than £3 a time for a protein bar too!!!

Strafer. How long do those home made bars keep for?

Paul

Sealed, they're fine for a week - probably longer, they're always gone within that space of time so I dont know. They keep well.

some good advice there  :P

Ive been a gym user for near 2 years now as i work in a leisure center..

Ive try ed all sorts of supplements and no matter what Ive found it hard to put on weight i had some anti depressants when i was younger which made me drop from 11 stone at about 5'9 to 8-9 stone due to making me virtually belimic (sp?) only in the last year have i put the weight back on I'm now 6'1 11 1/2 stone and fat percentage is about 8%..


if people are serious about the gym i recomend creatine and mass protein this give me the most weight gane in the gym with a low carb diet, the creatine gives you the will power to keep training even without carbs and protein helps build the muscle.

((WARNING)) don't take creatine if you cant consume more than 3 liters of water a day as it can cause liver problems!!

i try and make sure i do 2 muscle groups at a time e.g abs and triceps or biceps and chest.

after doing all your workout just before you leave the gym do a few leg exercises.. being the biggest muscles in your body after working on your legs it realises a lot of testosterone which will help your top half a hell of a lot.

always do your warm ups cooldowns and stretches else your regret it in later life!!!

good luck  ;)

Thanks for all the adice Paul. It spurred me on to hit the weights hard. Now my arms ache loads lol
A old friend of mine who used to box said that I can put of lots of muscle just doing 3 main excercises with a barbell. He said to do 3 lots of 12 of:
- military lifts
- arm curls
- and the rowing type exercise

is this balloney? can i really bulk up just doing these 3?

Not brilliant advice.

If I could do three exercises only to bulk up it would be

Squats
Chins
Benchpress

I'd like to add Military press if I was allowed a fourth.

thanks for the honest advice Paul.
I currently only use dumbells due to not living at my own place at the mo and lack of room.

I'l start doing squats when my legs fixed (broke it 2 months ago)

Is a bench essential for doing bench presses? probably a silly question, but im lacking in room for one at the mo

Thanks for the advice

Joe

Well yer it is essential,

You could do them on the floor but it would only be partial reps and you would have to try and get the weight over you without a stand??

Your better doing press ups than partial light bench presses.

Press ups work really well for developing your chest (especially if you have limited equipment)

You can do them flat or with feet raised, you can vary your hand spacing and use dumbells as stands for your hands to make you further from the floor to allow a greater range of motion

I'd advice a mix of both flat and feet raised with quite a wide grip.

 By raising your feet you hit your upper chest and by keeping your grip wide your chest develops wider.

A wide high chest looks a hell of a lot better than a low narrow one.

Paul

a bed is always handy for bench pressing!! there is no other way of building up chest really  :-\ im not a fan of bench press anyway as i find it hard to notice improvments but you have to stick at it an keep doing them else you end up looking a bit silly with hoooge abs and no chest lol good luck!

I'm currently having to use an abs board which is raised on it's own legs at one end and the other is on my bed, seems to work ok for lightish weights.

Thanks for the advice Paul.

I think i'll do a squats, chins, and press ups then (with my raised press up handles), and some militarys

whats the main advantage of doing militarys when i'll be doing chins anyway? id imagine im using the same muscles?

Should I do chins and press ups like weights by counting to two seconds on the way up and two on the way down. should my arms be directly above shoulders on pull ups?


thanks!
i'll be writing up a plan of what im gonna do so i stick to it





 

No Military press's are using your shoulders. (mostly front head of your deltoids)

Chins work all your back and the rear of your shoulders.

Paul

Or to put it another way - chins are the vertical pull, and militaries the vertical push. They are antagonist movements, think Newton's third law of motion "for every action there's an equal opposite reaction". The antagonist movement for the bench-press would be the row (bent over with a barbell for instance), these two movements are the horizontal push/pulls. A good basic routine would be the vertical & horizontal push/pulls, plus deadlifting (for hamstrings, back, grip etc) and squatting.

For instance:

Chins (vertical pull)
Overhead Press (vertical push)
Bench (horizontal push)
Bent over Row (horizontal pull)
Close stance back or front Squat (quad dominant)
Sumo Deadlift (hamstring/hip dominant)

As these are all compound movements, they'll hit your whole body, no need for pointless sit-ups or any other crap - your core is involved in all these movements as a stabilizer (especially in squatting and deadlifting, the 2 best core building exercises).

Things I would avoid are upright rows (bad for the rotator cuffs) - doing horizontal and vertical push movements on the same day (also stressful for the shoulders). Machines, avoid avoid avoid - stick to the free weights. Machines force your body into an unnatural path, you can get injured doing any kind of lifting but you're more likely to get injured using a machine. Also if you're doing squats or deadlifts - FORM FORM FORM!!! Read up on these exercises. The squat is especially difficult to master. It requires a lot of flexibility in the hips and hamstrings - dont let your lower back round as you drop down!

thanks for the advice everyone !!!!!!!!!  ;D

why isnt the dumbbell curl recommended as an exercise???? thats the one ive usually focused on the most!!!

ive got my pressup handle thingys out. theyre easily twice as hard now when i lower myself so much lower than before. how long should i take over these and chins? count to two on way up and way down??????/

thanks!!!Joe

Cause compound movements are best, dumbell curls are only really using your biceps.

thanks

i cant do squats for a few weeks as my leg too weak at the mo tho so think i'll keep doing the dumbell curls till then. my forearms are getting tiny!! but i dont know how to get em big just sitting down

Try

www.redtube.com (http://www.redtube.com)  ;)

Sorry ...you asked for that one  :D

thanks for that! never heard of that site before lol

im feeling the benfits of it already. started doing 12 kg curls  and could barely do ten now two lots of 12 is easy then another ten

Just keep your curling strict and you'll be fine. No back swinging etc. To build up your forearms you can also hold the dumbbell in your hand with your palm side facing upwards and move your hand up and down whilst supporting your arm on your leg. I also use the seated row at the gym and use the handles that point downwards too, (recently got 12 reps. on maximum... Rah!)
I'm rubbish at describing what exercises I do and how to do them, so I won't get offended if someone corrects me!

He wants bigger forearms, not carpal tunnel syndrome!

I've never seen the point of arm curls other than perhaps doing a few sets once a week. The biceps will get hit doing chin-ups - along with a whole bunch of other muscles. That's a much more efficient way of doing things. And if you're doing weight-training for sports and physical performance (if not what the hell are you doing on a D.H health and fitness board!) - in my opinion, biceps are NOT your priority. Hamstrings, hips, quads, core, shoulders & grip are. Strength and as much flexibility as can be encouraged in those areas will lead to better performance.

(But yes, most of the drunken girls at your local will love a big set of guns. The usefulness of them in that respest is obvious!)

most of the fitness advice im seeking here is not to make me fitter for riding mtb. Im simply interested in becoming more muscular but it just so happens that I love bikes. is that ok?? lol

how long should i take doing a chin up? shoul i do it however i like or what?

thanks for the advice

Joe

Fair enough.

If you're just trying to look better then find a good bodybuilding split. Something like (but not nessicarily the same as) this:

Monday
Triceps
Biceps
Chest

Wednesday
Back
Shoulders

Friday
Hamstring
Calfs
Quads

Aim for about 18 total sets (give or take, depending on your recovery capabilities) for each session.

Eat plenty of good carbs and fats - get around 1.5gms per pound of bodyweight of protien in you each day and drink lots and lots of water. In terms of diet - to build muscle you need to be consuming more calories daily than you're burning - that's clean calories - mars bars, crisps and the like dont count, they'll just make you fat. You need the extra protein to create (and maintain) new lean muscle mass.
 
As for the chin-up - explosive up - slowly and controlled on the way down.

If I'm doing chins with the bar in front of me, I get to the top of the bar and bring my knees up to my chest, then back down, in a crunch type thing, before lowering myself back down. If I'm doing them with the bar behind my head I keep my legs straight out in front of me and do them that way. They absolutely kill your lower abs. I try and do 12 per set, and do them in a split workout routine. Don't expect to do these right away, as it took me ages to get them right.

Take my hat off to you Rokin...I hate chins to rear with outstretched legs  so much I just don't ever do them.!!! (what are they called anyway?...no-one seems to know!!)

I used to prize myself on being able to do 50 wide grip chins though or 10 wide chins with 40kg on my belt  ;D

Sad to say in my sorry state at the minute I can barely do 15 per set  >:(

Cheers. Like a tit I've decided to train to do the human flag. I've been holding myself up on the wide slanted grip bar thing and doing leg crunches today. 12 per set over 5 sets on a split workout of dumbbell shoulder presses. I'm also doing dips whilst holding my body at a 45 degree angle.
The idea was to get a photo of me doing it on the pole dancing pole of the local ritzy, surrounded by dirty slappers! However, seeing what was being wrapped round said pole by a human hippo in a miniskirt recently put me off this.
And ham baguettes for that matter...

Unfortunatly Human hippo's always seem to frequent the local watering holes with the dancing poles....it should be illigal  :D

i had my 2nd physio session today for my broken knee recovery. they got me to do 1000m on the rowing machine and bloody hell was it a good work out!!!!! i felt ripped all over which is always a satisfying feeling and my arms looked pretty pumped up!

so anyway. I want to buy a compact rowing machine. it has to be one i can lean against wall to save space. is the type i can get for £45 quid from argos any good? you know the type where the arms are apart further.

any help much appreciated as i think itll help get me back riding sooner

Joe

Theres one thing my dad told me when i was young...and I always think of it when i nearly buy a cheap version of something...."you get what you pay for"

I don't need to say much more.

Paul

What kinda exercises can I be doing to prevent arm pump when riding? 

This is a great topic cheers

It will be rubbish, the rowing machines we use at our club cost around £1000+ new, most gyms have them aswell (concept 2), you can obviously get cheaper ones but I've no idea how lond they'd last.

Arm pump is just lactic acid build up (correct me if im wrong) So any form of forearm compound exercise will benefit you there, just so you gain more endurance therefore you dont feel that horrible 'burning ' sensation.

Rich

my rugby team is joining to age groups together to make two teams ( mine and the year above) I'd like to play for the year above but to do so i feel I'd need to get more "meat" thought I'd take a look at this thread and some of the things confuse me. ::)

was wondering if you could make up a quick list of some foods that would be good to eat and explain so exorcises that would be good to do  as i don't really understand some of them like militaries or what ever there called

any help would be appreciated

Paul

Googled it, this (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/BBMilitaryPress.html) came up.
Took about 20 secs  :)

oh and on the subject of front delt shizz, would this (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBShoulderPress.html) be as good or effective, as ive only got dumbbells at the moment.

DB Shoulder presses are a great exercise for developing your delts. Slightly different to a BB shoulder press (military presses) but yes they are very effective.

You don't have to follow programs to the letter, work with what you have got.  ;)

Paul.

P.S it's funny we are talking about home equipment and using what you have got.

I've just started training at home again after using gyms predominantly for years.
Was quite funny this Friday I went to Decathlon on a quest for some dumbells.....

....Came home with a 200kg of weights, a bar bell, some dumb bells, a multi purpose folding bench and a flipping squat rack!!!!  ;D

My second spare bedroom is now a gym ha ha, gona get a chin up bar/dip rack for it next.

What was even funnier was fitting Me, the Mrs and all of that equipment in to her Ford KA!!!  :D

Purely out of curiousity I decided to see the weight comparsion:

Ford Ka 1.3i 3-door = 1 265 pounds = 573 kilograms.

You had more than 1/3 of the car's weight in there! (I'm guessing a lot more with a 20kg oly bar, bench, and extra dumbells). Did the rear suspension springs recoil or is it permenantly lowered now?! Poor thing.

Lol no the KA is fine....but it was a bit lob sided on the way home!!

I was sat in the driver seat, with her behind me, then the left front and rear seats were folded flat (front one hinged forward).

With all the kit down the left hand side (all the plates in the passanger foot well).

Didn't realise they were that light!!!!...bloody hell, thats why it's so damn fuel efficient!....ways about the same as a multipack of crisps!

The ironic thing was that I drive a Huuuuggggggeeeee estate Volvo.

whyn not clean and press for a much more effective exercise?

hey, sorry there are 5 pages of this and I haven't got time to trawl through it all at the moment, so I hope this hasn't been mentioned at all already and I hope this is the right thread for this question.

I am 15 and at  the moment I am in my rugby clubs gym 3/4 times a week doing mostly weight training, I'm pretty in to it now and want to get the most out of it...

so, I was wondering what is the best meal to eat afterwards? at the moment I am eating pasta with different things, when i got home tonight I had roast chicken breast with pasta salad and light mayo. is this the correct sort of things? what else is good? (obviously I'm not talking generally as that's already been covered on the first page, more specific to me being 15, if it is any different?)

also, is there anything else I can do to get more out of it?

Cheers in advance
Alex

P.s. I am fully aware of the implications of weight training at 15 (stunted growth etc.) but I am already 6' 3" and probably the biggest build (structure wise) you will see in a 15 year old :D

Hey mate sounds like your diet is already pretty clean, if you eat that kind of stuff regularly then worrying about calories and proportions of carbs/fat etc is likely unecessary.

That said, if you are hitting the weights fairly hard/regularly then your body will need much more protein than normal. So chicken is good, but the rest of the day you want to eat more protein rich foods. And pasta contains practically none. So more meat, cottage cheese, nuts, beans etc etc. Maybe a protein shake or two. No need to go mad with it, IIRC you should eat about 1-1./5g of protein per pound of bodyweight when weight training.

Sorry mate, close but no cigar.

Ka's weight between 871 - 935kg http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Summary.aspx?model=247&page=2 (http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Summary.aspx?model=247&page=2)

Still a hell of a lot of weight to put in the poor wee motor though.

Paul, how's the home gym going? Surely not long before you develop it into a full blown commercial success.......



-Gordo

ok cheers mate, I have a protein shake after every work out at my gym anyways, but i guess i will probably start on the pistashio (sp?) nuts and peanuts again :P plus beans/ham on toast?

haha, making me hungry  :P

Alex

Oh yes, on second look it seems the gross weight is actually 1265 kilos, and what you stated is the kerb weight. 573 does seem stupidly light.

Run out of space and more importantly money mate. We still on for 6:30pm me kicking your ass?

Right... on account of money problems im not going to have a gym to go to this summer. Thats ok though because i've got a set of dumb-bells and some determination. I've worked out exercises I can do to hit most of the muscle's I want to, but im struggling for chest (pec's). I do raised leg press-ups (using a bed) but i can do alot of them relatively easy, and im trying to bulk up so I need something harder to do. I thought of getting a weights bench of some sort (which obviously opens up loads of chest options), but after a bit of research it looks like they start from £80ish and that a pretty base level one. Obviously this isn't easy on the wallet side of things.

So, in a long winded, rambling sort of way, i guess what im asking is are there any chest exercises I could try with my limited kit? and if not, can you recommend a good, cheapish weights bench? Or maybe a way of making press-ups harder (like weighted kit)?

Thanks guys.

Paul, we will do sit ups in france with one of us sitting on each others back, that'll make things hard!

Hey, Few questions somone is bound to know on here, ive been doing weights seriously for around 6 months now and happy how things are going (think im well hooked). At the mo im training 6 days a week for 1hr 30mins each session, mostly weights but i do swim after every session not for fitness I think it helps getting rid of lactic acid and stops me aching so much the next day.

But....
1, After a hard session my hands tend to shake im not sure if its bacause my body is being starved protein!?

2, My aggression goes through the roof i realise its from the testosterone can i kerb it anyway or subdew it somhow?? (my girlfriend would be happy if i could)

3,Im constantly hungry proteen shakes dont do much for me, Is my body craving food??

4,I always need a crap when I run, As a endurance training leader I find it quite annoying!

I like the sound of doing a six week program and posting "a before and after" on here it would be great to get a few of us to do it and really see the affects over that time.

Anyway if anyone could find answers or knows i would be greatfull for letting me know ;)

Cheers

(good post paul!)
 

6 days? Plus swimming? That's a hell of a lot of exercise. Do you work different groups, or do the same thing each time? You really need a days' break between heavy lifting to get your muscles back to full strength, so if you're doing the same muscle groups each day that may be the reason for the shaky hands. You need your recovery time, with plenty of sleep. Mix it up a bit too. I'll do dumbell shoulder presses one day, and reverse military presses the next time, if you don't do something like that already.
Alternatively, you may not be eating enough. I cycle to work 5 days, (5 miles off road each way... sometimes on a fully rigid single speed,) plus 3 heavy training sessions, plus hacking my bike around at weekends when I get a chance, and I eat a huge amount. The smaller amounts of food 6 times a day mentioned in Paul's other post has helped, so try that. Oh, and you mention protein quite a lot. Base your diet around it, but certainly pay a lot of attention to the other factors too. I have about 200g+ of protein in an average day, but around 300-350g of carbs due to the amount of exercise I do. I don't really drink protein shake too much. A scoop in my breakfast smoothie, but that's it. I have a protein bar after training, but have lots of chicken, tuna etc., as well as brown rice, pasta, fruit and cereal bars in my normal food habits.
Basically, try eating more, and possibly cutting down on your weight training a bit. Stick with the swimming. You may even see a benefit, crazy as it may sound!

At the mo my training program consists of...

Monday, chest and back
Tuesday, biceps and triceps
Wednesdays, shoulders and lats
Thursday, legs and abs
Friday, chest and back again
Saturday, abs and CV
Sunday, restday

All with a 25min gentle swim after

it may not be the best program i can do i might have to shiffle things about a bit with work and my diet (the packed meals are crap) but when im back in the uk its will be more regular. Oh and i have to walk around 6 miles a day to work too :(

Should benifit if i can keep this up a while im here till november.

i joined the gym a few weeks ago and ive manged to put on 6lbs of muscle in just under 3 weeks. I have a training programme and do all the exercises every time i go, which is all weekdays, my programme is:

5 minute bike warm up - level 2
24 minute bike programme - level 1 - 8
5 minute row or 5 minute run
chest press
lat pulldown
easy pull up machine
dual overhead press
bicep curl
stomach crunches on the ball
jack knives
 takes about 1 hour 30 minutes

so far i havent taken any supplements, would you advise me too? Ive taken creatine in the past, but it didnt suit me to well! im 16 and weigh 10 stone 6, I found it relatively easy to see changes when i started weights, before i was a slightly tubby but very active male. Now im seeing a leaner self, i feel a lot happier about myself and becoming slightly obsessed with the gym! Just goes to show what having so much time off after my gcses does!

Yea sounds like you doing well mate, I wouldnt reccomend creatine to anyone under 18 honestly because you body is still growing not just exterior i mean insides aswell. Most companys wont sell it to under 18s anyway.

Sounds like you dont need it anyway!? thats a great improvment in that time well done, Ive slowed down a bit being 27. I rate the stuff some do some dont but always read the warnings first, Jokes aside its your body so be carefull what you put in it.

Ive cut alot of cv out of my routeen now and im concentrating on bulk muscle gonna carry on like this till xmas time then its light weights lots of running and riding an anything else i can do to tone up before summer. Good idea !?! god knows only time will tell for me.  :P

Oh im 27 and 15st at the mo

All good stuff mate but mix it up and dos some different exercises as well/instead because:
1) this will get boring
2) your body will get used to it and improvements will slow
3) you are not targeting all of your muscle groups

Whats the best suggested workout then?
Just as a general idea of what i should be doing, when and how much.
James

If you've just started stick to training 3 times a week (mon, tues, fri), and stick to basic compound lifts to build some decnt strength.
Starting strength is probably the best programme to go by for a while( a quick google search will bring up loads).

Basically just stick to squats, deadlifts, bench press, cleans/rows, and add some dips or chins in aswell.

i really don't go to a gym that often (just a couple times a week in my free periods at college)

but i have found just riding builds up muscles and strength just as well as weight lifting etc.

for example i finished building a nice sized trick double at the begining of the summer and by now i have at least doubled my arm strength, just jumping and trying tricks.

also, just gettingn out and riding regurlarly will increase you leg muscles dramatically (well it did for me) and after a couple years biking i had the stongest legs in my year at school and still getting stronger.

long downhill runs are a wonder for most of the bodies muscles.

+ to top it off you are riding for fun/compotition, not going out just to work on your strength like you would in the gym.

No, that would be low blood sugar

Damm there goes my excuse for eating more then ! :(

eat more sweets and shugary things? XD  ;D

careful with blood sugars ....

last 24 i did i was seeing spots and feeling light headed as fook , lucky i met a friend on course who is a nurse and she told me to get some sugar in me very quickly .... so i ate one of her powergels ....

for the next week i was peeing so much i thought id become diabetic !

has anyone got any good sholder exercises. i know of sholder press, arnold press(good one), strait arm dumbell lifts(if you get wht i mean)

ta

Upward row,
Also lateral raises (out to the sides)
and out to front etc for building up that side of the shoulder muscle.

My shoulder routine usually consists of

Barbell shoulder press
Barbell press behind neck
Front side and rear lateral raises all superset together
Upright row.
Single arm db rear delt flyes
Db shrugs.

Paul

need some advice.
basically ive turned 16 and to be honest im not happy about my bodys appearance obviously i can't change facial appearance but i would very much like to loose some fat and gain some muscle for a more trim body.
ive just turned 16 and im around 6 ft 3 and im the biggest build for my age that ive come across with a 50 inch chest on my school blazer ( had to have it specially made) so im not exactly light. i weight in about 17 and a half stone. i admit im pretty fat too but my legs are about 3 times the size of the people in my p.e classes so im not to worried about bulking up down there as i do alot of cycling.
i would like to bulk up around the shoulders and back and biceps and triceps, peck and abs as much as possible as i think it will give me more confidence in the way i look and help me before better in rugby.
the advice i need is i have a very slow or fast metabolism which ever one mean you gain weight easily so i wondered if protein shakes will help as i need to loose fat also.
also would i be best to join a local gym and ask for advice on exercises from and instructor or get my own stuff at home.
i've seen alot about eating lots of calories but surely if i want to loose fat i need to eat less calories correct me if im wrong. can any one point me in the right direction.
any help would be great,

max.

yes you need lots of calories to gain muscle, there proberbly needed asmuch as protien try a high protien diet with lots of calories and this will help you gain muscle if  you are hiting the gym and doin exercise then once you have gained muscle change diet (to loose weight) to a diet of about 7 small meals a day that are designed to stop you being hungry but never totaly fill you up, and they dont all have to be a full meal they can just be a apple say or something but 6 or 7 small meals such as a small portion of tuna pasta or something also doing exercises still to keep the muscle growth up, also think about having as much fiber as you can as this will help fill you up more quickly and will last instead of you feeling full and then 5 mins later starving.


by the way im no dietician or anything so if any of it is wrong someone corect me  :)

cheers but doesnt really help with fat loss?
i mean would sit up etc get rid of the fat around my stomach area as it getting really bad lately and would prefer a much more tonned stomach that doesnt like wobble around wen i run around the rugby pitch  :D

the second diet (6 or 7 small meals) should help with loosing weight, but you might loose some muscle as well with that

No fat loss cannot be targeted, so you wont loose stomach fat by doing sit ups, however, by doing ab crunches and sit ups, you will strengthen the abs which can tone your stomach up more which will give an impression of weight loss even without loosing any.

The best way to loose weight is in pauls weight loss thread the man knows his stuff.

Basic tips are stick to big compound lifts and cardio, big lifts will strengthen your whole body and burn calories/build muscle, further, the more muscle you build the more calories youll burn.

look at squats, deadlifts, benchpress, overhead press, press ups, ab crunches (variety of ways), pull ups, push ups

Dont go starving yourself either that makes you more likely to burn away muscle and make you store all the food you do eat as fat.

eat atleast 6 small meals a day, stick to main food groups... protein (fish, meat, eggs, dairy), simple carbs (brown rice bread etc), healthy fats olive oil etc (in moderation) and fruit and veg, try to get a high protein intake and eat protein with every meal. this is one of the bigest and best changes you can make, cutting out any junk food and eating well so its important to get this right, its far better to do this than drink protein shakes, a shake is a suppliment and should only be used a long side a good diet, it wont work miricals, most are full of marketing bull too so to my knowlege whey protein is the best to get if at some point you want to suppliment your protein intake.
its a good idea to say have a protein shake and a banana or somthing post work out to get protein straight to the muscles and get your post work out carbs.

Cardio is also going to be good as you want to lose weight, two of the best ways to burn fat is HIIT high intensity interval training (search it) and cardio on an empty stomach (morning). low intensity cardio will also be good but has a tendency to burn muscle aswell (i belive this is not the case in morning cardio due to glycogen levels or some kind of thing i cant remember right now  :P)

anyway i know some of this may or most likey is repeated but heres what you basicaly need to know in one place

Its may seem like a lot to take on but once you get used to it it realy isnt too hard to maintain, you may even find you get a bit addicted to going down the gym and notice that eating good leaves you generally feeling better so its well worth doing. Just dont forget that any change towards this is a positive step aswell, dont go for a massive change if you dont think you can handle it either you're more likely to snap and give up all together if you take on too much too fast.

hope that helps

im sure paul will have some imput on that aswell