southerndownhill.com - Forum

After watching the crankworx dual slalom it got me wondering why theres no dual slalom events held in the uk? Ive been googling it and found nothing, it looks like just as much fun as 4x racing... almost, chicksands has a pretty fun dual track going which looks sweet as to race on, does anyone know if they ever hold races on it? also does anybody know if theyre holding any "off-season" 4x races there this year? I wanna keep racing to get me ready for senior cat at nps 4x next year  ;)

From what I've heard about the 4x races chicky will be holding an autumn 4x event, I've got no idea when though but I'll definitely be there fer sherrrrr! :) In regards to the dual, I've got no idea but that'd be so much fun, but they've added a metal gate to it recently so hopefully they will! ;D

Dual slalom is from back in the day, 4X replaced it a long time ago. Americans have always kept it going but the rest of the world seems to have forgotten it.

I was asking about dual the other day - i think its a forgotten discipline that should be brought back!

The Chicksands Dual course is great fun. They should definitely run a race their in the off-season. Maybe a non-NPS 4x, a dual, and a mini DH for a 3 race mini series.

But that's not a dual track in the traditional, flags and flat turns kind of nature of proper 90's dual.

It's more like the Sea Otter/crankworx dual's which are pretty much modern 4x tracks for 2 people.  If you're gonna race tracks like that you may as well race 4x tracks with more chance of mass pile ups.

Rootes

True that it's nothing like the old Malverns style flags and a hill courses - but it is a great fun track (and less daunting, easier to ride than the 4X - so possibly more suitable for beginners & grassroots racing). It's also just something a little different, and a variety is nice.

no dual slalom should not be brought back, its crap and always was,

 all it was, take out moves and who can get up back on their bike quickest, complete crap compared to 4up

 they had dual racing a few years ago at chicksands, but knocked it on the head when the 4x track was built and with good reason

Yeah gotta love Dual and I really hope that there is a Dual race day at Chicksands soon, that would be so cool....
You know the huge bottom berm, I think there used to be a smaller inside berm there, so the track was dual from the beginning to the end but now it is overgrown, if they wanted to hold an event on the dual then they may have to clear it.
Its just such a fun track to ride.

I thought there still was an inside bottom berm that was rideable? It all looked rideable a few weeks back (but I only rode the right hand line - as it looked harder)

I thought dual was meant to be about lane discipline and non contact?

Dual imho is more about who can ride their track the fastest not about the argey bargey fighting for first place that 4x is.

deul and dual.

isnt the english language great.

one form of racing was the take out and run as described. the other was lanes. usually one much faster than the other.

crap. thats why it was ditched.

better builders/finances now may be able to build better courses but making both lanes equal is pretty hard i recon.

The lack of anywhere to ride, anywere in Ireland

so i wouldnt moan

Exactly, dual should be totally non contact.

If you crash in dual it doesn't matter how quickly you get up (unless the other guy crashes too). The way they run it in the US is:

Rider 1 in lane A, Rider 2 in lane B. Race down the course, stay in lane, never touch each other. When the first rider crosses the finish, the timer starts. When the second rider crosses the finish, the timer stops.

Rider 1 in lane B, Rider 2 in lane A. Race again. If the rider that came 2nd in the first heat wins the second heat by more than the first place rider did in the first heat, they win overall. If not, then they lose.

If you crash in the first heat and come down 30 seconds after the first place rider, you don't have to make up 30 seconds in the second heat. The gap is pegged at a maximum of 1.5 seconds.  So if you come second by 0.1 seconds in the first heat, that's all you have to make up. If you come second by 1.5 seconds, you have 1.5 seconds to make up. If you come second by a whole minute, you still only have 1.5 seconds to make up.

It's less about getting a good gate and defending all the way down the course than 4X, and more about riding as fast as you can. I think it's an equally valid discipline as 4X, but has it's disadvantages for running a race meeting. It's less exciting to watch, and requires you run 4 times as many motos as you would in a 4X knockout (as you only have 2 riders at a time, not 4, and each pairing has to race twice, once in each lane). You could of course just do it on a single run basis, and ignore the averaging of two runs - but one lane will always be faster than the other so that would create arguments when everyone in the slower lane loses and start whining about how unfair it all is.

Thats the kind of dual racing im talking about more about consistency and egt a couple of good runs in to win each heat, not one good snap out the gate or one lucky corner when someone bins it and the three riders in front go down on mass!

Haha, that sounds like a report of the World Champs this year!

THere will be some off-season 4x races, keep checking nps4x for dates, we are hoping to get a few regional races going by helping run some races for people with 4X tracks.

That's good news. I'm all up for some regional 4X in the off season. Otherwise before I know it i'll be avoiding the bad weather, and sitting in all weekend, and suddenly it'll be April and the NPS 4X will be starting and i'll be so rusty from not riding that I just wont bother (again).

Marshalls Cycles in Hertfordshire used to run a Dual Series on there own track up near Stevenage I believe a place called Bennington... I believe the track is still there and with a bit of encouragement maybe they will put races again.......  :)

Love the idea of the mini series doing 4x, dual and mini DH at chicksands but i think the need for timing gear on the mini DH adds unneccesary faffing about, although it would be good to include as its an awesome course.

Back on solely dual though, couldnt there be some kind of unnoficial/off the cuff kind of event? On the day signup, 3 or so categories, simple knockout rounds and DIY numberboards and nothing but a bit of pride if you win. Its a manually operated gate, so shouting 'ready!' and and pulling it when you like is as good as any random start gate, and turning up knowing you'll actually have some genuine competition as opposed to just trying to beat your mate will add a bit more fun.

That could work. To keep it simple (and remove the need for any timing/two runs malarkey) just flip a coin for lane choice at each run. PA system = somebody with a megaphone. Categories = kids/slow people, fast people. Everyone pays £1. Rubbish prizes (first place = pride, a can of Monster energy). All proceeds go to charity.

I used to enter the dual races at Chicky, it wasn’t that long ago they ran them…

I’m not sure if Steve still runs them (I’ve moved away in the last couple of years), what with the 4X being a more developed, in demand track and probably taking up more of his time to maintain… 

The dual races they ran weren’t totally “non-contact”, the rule was stay in lane till you pass the red flag (at the end of the switchbacks, going into the 2nd table top) after that point there is no lane discipline, and riders can take any line they fancy, although normally the first rider past that red flag was 90% likely to win, simply by hogging the faster lines down the rest of the course although there was the odd surprise…

It was a great course to race on, and to do well you had to be comfortable on both lines, obviously it’s nowhere near as fast and gnarly as the 4X next to it, but good fun little races…

Ah now I understand how the track used to work, that red flag rule makes a lot of sense given the layout of the track.

A small dual event there could work for sure, and I'd definitely be up for it.