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| | |-+  Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
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Author Topic: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?  (Read 1845 times)
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2008, 21:11:38 PM »

but people are happy to spend £3000 on a bike but dont seem to think it might need looking after
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2008, 22:37:41 PM »

Mojo are the distributors of Fox aren't they?
So just like Bombers are distributed by Windwave.  If you wanted your Bombers servicing I'm pretty sure whoever did it would source the parts from windwave.

I don't really see what the problem is?
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2008, 06:46:17 AM »

There isn't a problem.  No monopoly and its not unfair.   If people want to buy bits or service themselves that's fine and Mojo supply Fox parts anybody who needs them.  People have a choice but might be generally unhappy with pricing.
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2008, 09:54:47 AM »

I do agree that it can sometimes seem a little steep, especially when you see how long this takes TF, but at the end of the day, it's something you need a lot of technical knowlege and specialist tools for (not so much for fork servicing, but shock).  I'd hazard a guess that none of you could tell me where to start stripping your DHX or similar.  (Actually - if you could that'd be a great help!)

Unfortunately suspension, like any other moving part needs servicing frequently, often more so than we'd like.  Save some cash and do your forks yourself.  As you'll see in the video above, it's really not that hard!  All you need is basic tools and about 30ml of oil and you're away!

Back on topic a little to the original post;  It does suck a bit that TF can't get certain spares for Fox shocks, but in a way, it's not that much different from going to a shop that doesn't sell Orange bikes.  You wouldn't get pi**ed off with that, simply go elsewhere.  In this case, that has to be Mojo because, as has already been stated, there is not a big enough market in suspension service to warrent hundreds of shops (although there should be!  You should see the number of forks etc we get in at work haggered because they haven't seen even new oil in years!).
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calla_tha_one
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2008, 14:03:23 PM »

I don't have a problem with Mojo and TF Tuning charging reasonable prices for suspension servicing, they have chosen to offer their services in a specialist market, have invested in premises, training and tooling, and offer good quality work - at the end of the day they both have a good reputation as they do the work well and in a timely fashion, and deserve to make a living


I am still puzzled why so many riders in the UK don't understand that suspension needs regular servicing, and don't figure this into the cost of owning / operating a suspended bike

I have had several forks come through our workshop recently in a shocking state, with blown dampers and worn stanchions, and when i have removed the lowers there is either no lubricant oil or grease in there, or they are full of muddy water and dirt....

its very common for people to develop problems, bring a bike in, when asked about previous servicing say "i've never even looked at in 2 years mate..." and then balk at the £200 bill for repair work and servicing

I think the industry (whether its fork, shock and bike manufacturers, retailers or specialist tuners) need an education campaign to get people to understand that this stuff needs looking after
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2008, 15:56:10 PM »

*snip*
I think the industry (whether its fork, shock and bike manufacturers, retailers or specialist tuners) need an education campaign to get people to understand that this stuff needs looking after

Shock and fork companies do have a section in their manuals with service intervals, and it's really down to the consumers to scan through it.  I have to day, I never actually bother reading them, but will often have a quick flick through to see if there's anything interesting.  For instance in my Boxxer manual, it states very clearly that these forks require servicing every 25 hours (although TF reckon every 10 will increase the life of your fork no end).  People are given these manuals for a reason. 

I will also admit that I tend to follow the rules of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', even when it comes to suspension to some extent.  Forks, I can do myself, and get done every few months when I get bored, but something like a shock that you have to send away often gets forgotten about - I can't just go and service it when I find a spare hour or so somewhere.  The only difference is, that when I (eventually - I promise!) send my shock away, and I'm told I've raped it, I won't have a hissy fit about the cost of its' repair.
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2008, 19:20:27 PM »

its true you get a manual with a Fox shock or Rockshox fork...etc.

but I wonder how many riders take the time to put the Fox CD-R into their PC and check it out, or read the paper manual and look at the service intervals

as well as a lack of servicing, the other thing we commonly find is riders using spring rates completely wrong for their weight

I've sold complete production bikes in the past and mentioned to the buyer that we need to get a new spring for their rear shock to get the suspension setup correctly, and they have replied "don't worry mate, I'm gonna ride it for a bit and see what its like!!"

the other thing you always see is the pre-load adjuster on rear shock screwed all the way down the shock body in some vain effort to make a difference (despite it being knowledge amongst the educated that you can use 2 turns of pre-load which makes  1% difference before needing to change spring weight)
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2008, 20:55:32 PM »

If you're stupid enough to buy a pair of the stupidly delicate, massively overpriced forks in the first place you get everything you deserve.

Mojo have an exclusive contract to import them to the UK and they are proud to position the brand at the top end of the market and control the supply of spares as they wish - all is fair and it's damn good marketing I'd say.

Having said that, the rear shocks are fairly good and are pretty much the only "main stream" brand I'd fit to my bike (lets face it - at this point it's a choice of 2 - aftermarket you'd never choose em).
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2008, 21:02:26 PM »

If you're stupid enough to buy a pair of the stupidly delicate, massively overpriced forks in the first place you get everything you deserve.


I guess I'm stupid then.   I have 4 pairs and love them all.  God, I must be really stupid.
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2008, 21:08:00 PM »

Lol, we're all stupid!, until one of the other manufacturers come up with something better i'll have to stick with Fox and Mojo.....Someone please make a better fork...Please?
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2008, 15:27:25 PM »

I do agree that it can sometimes seem a little steep, especially when you see how long this takes TF

Save some cash and do your forks yourself.  As you'll see in the video above, it's really not that hard!  All you need is basic tools and about 30ml of oil and you're away!

Just like to point out that this is not 'servicing a boxxer' as such, nor is it what TF do to your forks when you send them off. It is merely replacing the stantion/lower lubrication oil which should be done as a matter of course every so often if you own a set.

Orge.
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2008, 16:30:13 PM »

Id like to add that although there is other angles to look at this. Like a bike shop, the majority of servicing is the making money, not selling the product in the first place. My local bike shop sells Cube bikes, and the profit margin is so low that when you take into account Tax, shipping and deals done on the bike, they make b*gger all on the sale. What the do make money on is replacing chains, brake pads, services and hopefully the rest of the customers loyalty. Fact is, bike mechanics are grosly underpaid compared to other mechanics and its because of where the market is and its specialty.

As has also been said, we cant seem to get out head around servicing regularly in the UK.A mate who I went to France with this year blew up his DHX5. When asked when it was last serviced, he had never had it serviced in 5 years of having it! Hes a big guy and rides some pretty harsh stuff so its not surprising!

Further more, just because Fox have a contract with Mojo in the UK dosent mean they do the same in the rest of the world. In Morzine theres a tiny little shop with 1 guy in the basement charging 80 euros for a full strip down and service and if need be replacing parts. He does Fox, Marzocchi, Rockshox and pretty much anything else you want to throw at him. He is not a genuine Fox dealer but can buy Fox parts, meaning they have a more open system in France to the UK. However, whilst it may seem like a Monopoly to most people Fox made a tactical decision for the UK. It does mean Mojo can charge set prices and means increased profit for Fox. When you think about suspension parts, the majority of things are at cost that covers their overheads and then a percentage added on, but mostly these are cheap because servicing costs are naturally high. The fact parts are only available through Mojo is also because as has pointed out, the majority of people dont work on suspension themselves.

Theres many points involved but I doubt any laws or treaties have been broken by Fox/Mojo.
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2008, 20:10:01 PM »

Some of you seem to be going in circles on the monopoly thing, if you really don't believe my earlier post then have a read of 'Commission Regulation (EC) 2790/1999' (articles 1-5) to check out the exemptions yourselves.  You'll soon see that it talks about turnovers of EUR 50 million and EUR 100 million or more.  I can't imagine the entire UK mountain bike suspension market being worth that, let alone Mojo.  Once you've read it I'm sure you'll appreciate what a monopoly really is.  You should also take note that Fox is a global company and will have taken advice from team of anti-trust/competion lawyers before even considering selling abroad outside of the US.
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2008, 09:34:48 AM »

I do agree that it can sometimes seem a little steep, especially when you see how long this takes TF

Save some cash and do your forks yourself.  As you'll see in the video above, it's really not that hard!  All you need is basic tools and about 30ml of oil and you're away!

Just like to point out that this is not 'servicing a boxxer' as such, nor is it what TF do to your forks when you send them off. It is merely replacing the stantion/lower lubrication oil which should be done as a matter of course every so often if you own a set.

Orge.

Yea, I know - I'm just amazed about how quick he manages to do it whilst making a tutorial!  That manages to take me forking ages!  However, if people did this maintenence themselves, then their forks would generally last much longer between propper service intervals (i.e. seals and bushings needing replaced)
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Re: Mojo and Fox - unfair monopoly?
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2008, 10:42:21 AM »

That manages to take me forking ages!

Nice pun!

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